Paul Rolf Jensen — LTC Lakin’s apparently former civilian defense counsel — has moved on to a new cause:  he’s now representing a client whom his own press release calls “a former call girl” in a suit against David Beckham arising from Beckham’s libel suit against In Touch magazine for printing the former call girl’s allegation that she had a one-night stand with Beckham.  Here’s a link to the E! online story mentioning Mr. Jensen and his press release.  (The link was provided in a comment on Doc Conspiracy’s website.)

It would be interesting to one day learn what provoked the change in counsel.  Mr. Jensen’s litigation approach had actually been drawing a great deal of fire from the guano crazier part of birthdom, arguing that he hadn’t been aggressive enough in challenging President Obama’s constitutional eligibility, as reflected by this WorldNetDaily piece.  That article includes what is now this very amusing quotation from Lakinista spokesperson Margaret Hemenway:  “‘He is a modest and humble man who simply seeks affirmation, per his positive duty, to affirm the legality of his lawyers,’ she continued, stressing that Lakin is ‘staying the course.'”  Five days later, it appears not.  {And, no, “affirm the legality of his lawyers” isn’t my typo; that’s what is in the WND piece.)

Of course, there was an intervening event:  the 28 September Article 39(a) session, which the No Man discussed here.  And Mr. Jensen sounded crushed by the result, as reflected by this WorldNetDaily piece.  Was it unexpected?  Had he provided LTC Lakin with guidance inconsistent with Judge Lind’s 28 September rulings?

Ever since he was first charged, LTC Lakin must have been experiencing something like what occurred with Larry in Animal House.  Remeber the scene where Larry was in bed with the mayor’s daughter and the devil popped up and said — well, we all know what the devil said.  And then the angel popped up and gave contrary advice.  That must be what it’s been like for LTC Lakin with Mr. Jensen playing the role of the devil and MAJ Kemkes, his detailed defense counsel, playing the role of the angel.  The angel finally won the argument in Animal House.  Maybe MAJ Kemkes finally prevailed with LTC Lakin.  Or maybe the realization that he was about to say bye bye to his military retirement and be shipped off to the USDB caused LTC Lakin to flinch.  Whatever the reason, LTC Lakin will now be represented by counsel who will see their duty as zealously representing their client’s interests rather than advancing a dubious political cause.

So we’ve probably seen the last of the guano crazy in the Lakin case.  The case is now likely to become an exercise in controlling the damage caused by LTC Lakin’s and his previous defense counsel’s decision that it would be a really good idea to make a video of LTC Lakin asserting his determination to disobey orders and placing that video on YouTube, then carrying through on his promise (including by refusing an order to report to his Medal of Honor recipient brigade commander in Arlington, Virginia as ordered).  It will still be interesting to see how the case unfolds and concludes, but it will now be much more of a dog-bites-man story than the man-bites-dog story it’s been to this point.

174 Responses to “Goodbye guano crazy”

  1. mikeyes says:

    You know, and I never thought I would say this, but you have to feel sorry for LTC Lakin. Clearly he did not begin this adventure without some urging by parties unknown (maybe), it was too well orchestrated. Now he is left holding the bag, his name has been removed from all the pertinent web sites and he will soon be a persona non grata with everyone involved.

    Had he kept his opinions to himself (as all other officers do) he would be an O-6 soon and continue to be an outstanding officer. He could have retired at twenty and had a find second career in civilian life. Now he may even lose his licenses to practice medicine and if these survive, he will be on the National Data base with the equivalent of a felony which will limit how he can practice.

    It is a good thing he has competent lawyers on his side now before he enters a plea.

  2. Norbrook says:

    I would phrase that as the guano crazy inside the courtroom is now gone, but I’m quite sure the guano crazy will continue unabated outside of it. I predict a huge amount of guano produced from the birthers on conspiracies about how LTC Lakin was “gotten to,” as well as rehashing various conspiracy theories.

    From a legal standpoint, it’s going to be interesting to watch LTC Lakin’s new team attempt to unmake toast.

  3. John O'Connor says:

    You know, and I never thought I would say this, but you have to feel sorry for LTC Lakin.

    Well, you can feel sorry for him, but I don’t agree that you have to. This man was smart enough to earn a medical degree. I’d feel sorry for a private who lacked an education.

  4. John O'Connor says:

    My post arguably reads as critical of mikeyes, which I didn;t intend. Treat the word “can” like it’s italicized. (if you put the emphasis on “you,” it really changes my meaning).

  5. sg says:

    As I noted in one of the earlier threads, the birther history will become that LTC Lakin was really a closet Obot all along and that he volunteered to do this to attempt to smoke out birther legal strategy as well as any birthers in the officer corps and that a guilty plea or a conviction will be nothing more than window dressing because somebody, George Soros most likely, will pay Lakin off handsomely.

  6. sg says:

    I can just see it now, Col. Sullivan–the Defense Counsel rises, addresses the bench and says “please the court, I’d like to direct the members’ attention to the video screens to view a re-enactment of that day when my client realized the error of his ways. My client is portrayed by Tom Hulce…Wackiness ensues…

  7. SueDB says:

    What??? Isn’t Tom Cruise or George Clooney available?

  8. mikeyes says:

    I need to insert the word “almost” between “to” and “feel” as LTC Lakin knows better.

    In defense of my fellow physicians, I don’t know a larger group of reputedly intelligent people who are taken in by scams as much as physicians are. (Not much of a defense, but true.)

  9. Dwight Sullivan says:

    sg–I literally laughed out loud when I read your comment. I’m just thankful I wasn’t drinking anything at the time.

  10. Cloudesley Shovell says:

    I was once involved in a case where civilian counsel seemed intent on driving our client over a cliff, with the client eagerly along for the ride. It was not a pleasant experience. Thank goodness for a military judge who played some procedural games to delay trial for a while. It took a lot of back-channel begging and pleading with various folks at the SpCM and GCM levels to get things ratcheted down.

    Perhaps there is still time for Major Kemkes and new civilian counsel to save their client from the more severe consequences of his folly.

  11. SueDB says:

    I was once involved in a case where civilian counsel seemed intent on driving our client over a cliff, with the client eagerly along for the ride.It was not a pleasant experience.Thank goodness for a military judge who played some procedural games to delay trial for a while.It took a lot of back-channel begging and pleading with various folks at the SpCM and GCM levels to get things ratcheted down.Perhaps there is still time for Major Kemkes and new civilian counsel to save their client from the more severe consequences of his folly.

    Ltc Lakin worked real hard to get here. I am of the opinion, that it is pretty much too late for Lakin. I mean – admitting your crime in a court document (filed by the Wily E Coyote, Esquire legal firm – Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe LLC) pretty much seals it…Unless the Judge will let them do – ‘a do over’ – fat chance…

  12. Sterngard Friegen says:

    Let me venture my opinion as to what really happened. (I post about birther lawyers at http://www.politijab.com and http://www.fogbow.com and have made it my life’s mission to see to it that Orly Taitz is disbarred. I’ve been a California lawyer for 40 years and previously taught the law and sat as a judge.) I also was a civilian defense counsel early in my career, during the Viet Nam war.

    Lakin was flirting with birtherism, or more than flirting, and he was probably offended that an African American had been elected POTUS. Somehow Lakin got in touch with Margaret Hemenway. She facilitated the American Patriot Foundation (irony alert) connection and introduction to Paul Rolf Jensen, who is as much of a publicity whore as Orly Taitz, and was only happy enough to accommodate Lakin. Jensen knew nothing about birtherism (we never heard of him before March 20, 2010) but allowed the Hemenways to “teach” him the specifics. I think Lakin was already into it and that if his current defense counsel use Jensen’s malpractice as a defense or mitigation it is a croc.

    In other words, Lakin already had his mind made up and Jensen was only happy enough to whore out his law license so that he could garner some more publicity.

    I am ashamed to be a member of the same bar as Jensen and Taitz. They are disgusting. But I think Lakin had already decided to plow the field which he now finds is fallow. Of course, that doesn’t mean that he will tell his new counsel the truth, but if Lakin is attacked Lakin may tell his version of the truth at sentencing.

    I think it’s going to get ugly out there. I, for one, hope so. The uglier the better. I also think that Lakin was in this before Jensen’s “legal advice,” and that there should be no defense or mitigation based on any of Jensen’s “advice.”

  13. Bovril says:

    Question.

    Lets us suppose that Lakin tries for a plea bargain to at least reduce time served and possibly save his pension.

    Is there an equivalent of allocution where he wil lhave to say not just WHAT he did but WHY he did it>

    It would be interestig to see if we could winkle out just who was in bed and driving this one all along……

  14. Rob A says:

    In defense of my fellow physicians, I don’t know a larger group of reputedly intelligent people who are taken in by scams as much as physicians are. (Not much of a defense, but true.)

    I assume you are an MD. Do MD’s in general look down upon DO’s (such as Lakin) or are they regarded as equals as far as their education is concerned???

  15. mikeyes says:

    Do and MD are interchangeable these days and have been for 30 or more years. The only real difference is that DO education teaches manipulation but it is very common to see a DO in a residency taught at an MD institution. The opposite is not so true. There are some philosophical differences (DOs tend to be more holistic and more family medicine oriented) and DOs are more unevenly distributed tending to be in the heartland where the schools are.

    Osteopathic Medicine is the preferred term in the United States since that are other “osteopaths” in the world who do not have the same education.

    LTC Lakin has had a typical Army medical education. He started in the service after he graduated from school but may have had a military scholarship and took a number of military sponsored fellowships. My school, Tulane, has a large number of students with military scholarships and contributes many physicians to the military (including me, but I was drafted/Berry planned in 1968 without the scholarship.)

    In the remote past, say 1950s, there was a distinct difference and the two professions were separate. DOs were first accepted in the military in 1966 and have been considered on the same level as MDs ever since. There is a natural attraction of DOs to the military as a result of this decision.

  16. Bill C says:

    While I loathe the birthers, and hope Taitz and Jensen get their due, I have no idea why race has to enter into the discussion. As most on this forum know, I am a conservative guy, and have my share of disagreements with the POTUS and this administration, but it his policies, not his race. I disagreed with the Clinton administration as much, if not more, than the current administration. While I know what LTC Lakin’s views on politics are, I would never presume to know what his views on race are.

  17. Rob A says:

    @mikeyes – thanks

  18. Anonymous says:

    Bill C that would make you a conservative, not a birther, there is a difference.

    I’m a liberal but have no belief that most rational conservatives like you have a racial component to opposition to the president.

    I do believe that most birthers do have such a component to theirs.

  19. SueDB says:

    It is kind of like with of all the doctors I know, the best are DOs (top 1 thru 5), and the worst was a DO. I prefer going to them due to the family orientation. There’s nothing wrong with MDs, but overall the DOs have my vote.

  20. Rob A says:

    The reason I brought it up, is that I have only known two DO’s. One was an Air Force LTC who happened to be my next door neighbor. She was an absolute idiot and decreased my respect for AF officers to an all time low. The other was a neurologist hand picked by my self insured government employer to treat an OJI. He was a total work comp fraud that set my case back several months.

  21. Randy says:

    LTC Lakin’s Court Marshall is not just about a birth certificate, or embarrassing a President. If allowed to proceed with discovery, and succeed, his efforts could have exposed systemic corruption festering within the Democrat party.

    Lakin and Council versus an entire entrenched political party. Righteousness does not beget victory.
    They knew they never stood a chance.
    The point is they took the chance.

    But about that original birth certificate.
    As far as I can tell, no one has yet been able to explain in a rational tone, why (Hawaiian officials say it exists) we can’t see it? What privilege has Obama co-opted to avoid scrutiny as a public official?
    And why do you acquiesce?
    Is he omnipotent?

    Maybe, a few select state election commissions will demand Obama’s valid original long form birth certificate before certifying him for their 2012 election ballots. Or is that just too much to ask?
    Would that be too insulting of the Nobel Prize whiner?

    The DNC was able to play fast and loose with the rules qualifying Obama in 2008. With the assuring silence from Democrats controlling Congress, the blessings of the main stream media, and a pesky trail of historical documents to conceal, Obama perpetuated this Constitutional Crisis. He is entangled in his own secrets. Forfeiting a second term would be preferable to releasing his pertinent records. Lakin’s requests and fate are of no concern.

    LTC Lakin will get his justice in the court of public opinion. For most Americans the headline will read:
    “Obama imprisons Military Doctor for defending the Constitution.”

    Waco
    Ruby Ridge
    CertifiGate
    Democrats

  22. SueDB says:

    LTC Lakin’s Court Marshall is not just about a birth certificate, or embarrassing a President. If allowed to proceed with discovery, and succeed,

    I just have to wonder about some folks some time. Go into a forum of Military Legal Professionals and tell bald faced lies…
    Dad, do we need to go over this crap for the 100th time or are we about done?
    Oh, yes – And the American public could give a rat’s behind about Terry Lakin…neener neener…

  23. Rob A says:

    What color is the sky in your birfer world???

  24. sg says:

    It looks like Col. Sullivan posted the goodbye to gurano crazy a little too soon.

  25. Rob A says:

    LTC Lakin’s Court Marshall

    BTW it’s Martial not Marshall

  26. nbc says:

    Lakin’s requests and fate are of no concern.

    Of course not. Why should the President be concerned about the beliefs of Lakin? That his beliefs drove him to failing to obey a lawful order or two deserves to be appropriately ‘rewarded’. Do you not believe in equal justice :-)

    Lakin may be a ‘hero’ in the eyes of a few who are less interested in truth and facts than in seeing an odd looking, President with an odd sounding name in office.

  27. nbc says:

    As far as I can tell, no one has yet been able to explain in a rational tone, why (Hawaiian officials say it exists) we can’t see it? What privilege has Obama co-opted to avoid scrutiny as a public official?

    The same right you and I have, the right to privacy. His birth certificate or any other document have no relevance to his public actions.

    Why do you insist on harassing people with meaningless requests to see any and all of their documents?
    Why are you ignoring the COLB? The official statements of the Department of Health of Hawaii?

    Tough isn’t it when facts disagree with your fears..

  28. Randy says:

    No, we won’t go away.
    You forget we created Ken Starr from a space alien and Monica was a plant.
    I didn’t start the conspiracy but releasing the document would go a long way towards ending it.
    I suppose it is naive of me to demand honesty and accountability from elected officials.
    And apparently you all have all the answers except:
    Does the COLB say what hospital he was born in?
    Does it have the Doctor’s signature?
    Witnesses?
    Prints?
    I could see Obama wanting to redact a few other items on the certificate but these?
    Why is this information a matter of national security?

  29. Randy says:

    Obama has said he was born in a hospital in Hawaii.
    If the birth certificate confirms it, great, we can move on. If it doesn’t, then he is a complete fraud. Such is a huge gap between two outcomes being held hostage by his refusal to release one document.
    Somethings amiss alright, but it’s not me.

  30. Randy says:

    “Rob A says:
    What color is the sky in your birfer world???
    BTW it’s Martial not Marshall”

    Dear Rob,
    Red seems to be your favorite color.
    And you forgot the period.
    Best wishes,
    Randy

  31. soonergrunt says:

    Something you aren’t getting here is extremely important to the posters here on this blog. I’m just a schmuck-hanger-on here, but I’ll try to explain it to you:
    Whether or not Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii, Kenya, or on Mars is utterly irrelevant to whether or not LTC Terry Lakin committed the crimes of which he stands accused.
    LTC Lakin’s court-martial is the subject of interest to these people, them being mostly lawyers at the military bar. Basically, if you would do whatever it is that you need to do to a) focus, and b) behave in polite society, these people here would be glad to tell you why LTC Lakin is a poor tool and his Court-Martial a poor vehicle to get you what you want.

  32. soonergrunt says:

    the above is directed at Randy.

  33. Phil Cave says:

    SG, my one quibble with you would be that this is no tool at all. But overall I do really like how you and other non-lawyers have mission-focus and get to the heart of the matter.
    I’d do a smiley face but haven’t figured out the techonology. So cheers!

  34. Rob A says:

    Dear Rob,
    Red seems to be your favorite color.
    And you forgot the period.
    Best wishes,
    Randy

    Randy, when you come up with some admissible evidence of ineligibility that hasn’t been debunked numerous times, I while take your nonsense seriously. Until then, I will regard you and your “patriot” friends as kooks. Fair enough???

  35. Rob A says:

    I while take your nonsense seriously

    Had I previewed this, I would have changed “while” to “will”.

  36. Rob A says:

    Maybe not?
    http://court-martial-ucmj.com/lakin-2/ltc-lakin-sitrep-more-huge-news/

    I still think he will beg for mercy, and that this is an attempt by the birthers to save face.

  37. soonergrunt says:

    the smiley, :-) is created by colon dash close parenthesis, :) or simply colon close parenthesis.
    :_) delete the underscore or replace it with a dash.
    ;) winking smileys use semicolons instead.

    I’m here to serve.

  38. SueDB says:

    I’m here to serve.

    Would you please make that coffee with 2x cream and 1x Splenda®? Yes, the big cup please…
    Thank you

  39. Capt. Obvious says:

    Re: Orly Taitz and racism.

    This is what Taitz, Esq. posted on her Facebook Wall after one of her judicial smackdowns (October, 2009):

    “U sir appear to be corrupt and irresponsible in administering ur duties as a Judge at any level. We have an oppurtunity to find out once and for all who or what this “Userper” is.
    .
    If he is who and what he says he is, then OK and I will g…ive him serious consideration.
    .
    Right now, without proof, he is just another Animal Beast of the Field or shall I say “[n – word]”*
    .
    If “it” truly is in Office legally, then “it” would be the first well trained animal to hold the Office of President of the United States.
    .
    If u accept my challenge, I would require a Birth Certificate and a Driver’s License to show who u r and prove u have not sent some “Ringer” in ur stead. I, of course will do the same…U do have a Birth Certificate?
    .
    Thank U-Obama would have to be Human for me to be a “Racist”

    *(redacted original racist term used by Taitz)

  40. SueDB says:

    “Rob A says:
    What color is the sky in your birfer world???
    BTW it’s Martial not Marshall”Dear Rob,
    Red seems to be your favorite color.
    And you forgot the period.
    Best wishes,
    Randy

    Maybe you should finish your education with a class in English as a second language. There aren’t any speakers of Birthardish on staff. We just couldn’t find anyone with a low enough “ignorance threshold”.

  41. soonergrunt says:

    Well, being the only NCO around here as far as I can tell, that just figures.

  42. Bill C says:

    So the fact that Orly Taitz is a racist makes LTC Lakin a racist? My point is merely that we should have some proof before we label a person with such an incendiary term. I have neither heard nor seen anything that leads me to believe that LTC Lakin is racist.

  43. Phil Cave says:

    I don’t think you are the only enlisted person on here.
    You are not here to serve, and I’m certain SueDB didn’t mean it in that fashion. And I think you are both taking this as a joke which is good. So there’ll be no hard feelings.
    I remember my early Navy officer indoctrination. [Chiefs] are here to mentor and teach.
    Cheers!!!

  44. Randy says:

    Is there one person here with enough honest curiosity to admit that they want to see
    the real birth certificate? You cannot deny that the COLB omits some very important information.

    Who here says that the COLB shows what hospital he was born in?
    Who here says that the COLB identifies the attending physician?
    Care to debunk that?

  45. soonergrunt says:

    I’m certain SueDB didn’t mean it in that fashion. And I think you are both taking this as a joke which is good. So there’ll be no hard feelings.

    Absolutely.

  46. BigGuy says:

    I think we can all agree that the COLB shows neither the name of the hospital nor the name of the attending physician. The hospital is widely reported to be Kapi’olani Medical Center (among others, the governor of Hawaii has said so). I’ve seen some speculation about the name of the doctor, but nothing definite.

    So what? The COLB is currently the only official birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii and it happens not to include that information. Since the document is legal proof of when and where he was born, and since the identity of the hospital and physician are of no relevance to his eligibility, it hardly seems worth making a fuss over.

  47. soonergrunt says:

    By the same token, we have to assume that you are a US citizen, “Randy”. I have my doubts. I think your poor spelling and grammar gives you away as an agent of another country, most likely China or Pakistan. I think you should have to prove that you are who you say you are to my standards, and not the legal standards.
    So I’ll take a copy of your original birth certificate, a certified copy of your Social Security card, documentation from insurance companies or utility companies that persons with your name and your parents names have had continuous service since your birthdate, high-resolution (2000dpi) scans in both 32-bit color and black and white, front and back, of your driver’s license and auto registrations.
    Provide me with those, and anything else I demand, immediately upon my demand, or you have no moral leg upon which to stand. As it is, you have no legal leg, because the documents that establish Barrack Hussein Obama’s natural-born citizenship have been authenticated by the government officials whose duty that is.

  48. Phil Cave says:

    :-)

  49. Randy says:

    Thank you for clarifying that for me.
    However, although I happen to agree with you wholeheartedly, nothing in your response has addressed the issue I raised.
    Where is any evidence the CiC has offered that proves which hospital he was born in and who slapped his ass for the first time?
    Now, I didn’t say “Obama must prove it”, but since so many here have ordained my query debunked thousands of times over, would someone else debunk it again?

    I have observed over the last few months through random conversations that the same people who are quick to shout “Birther” are the same people who think OJ was innocent.

    We all know OJ was innocent…don’t we?
    Lakin is obviously guilty.

  50. Interested onlooker says:

    Sure, it would be interesting to see the birth certificate. But how am I going to know whether it is legitimate, regardless of what it says? Why is it important information to know the name of the attending physician? What about people born without medical personnel as witnesses, are they to be barred from the Presidency? How big of a mess will it make when your head explodes, having seen that birth certificate showing that he was born where the COLB says, complete with the signatures of a couple of likely deceased medical personnel?

    You birthers caught a lucky break, what with Obama declining to play along with your desire to see his papers, and his dad not being a US national. What would you be doing if you didn’t have this eligibility angle to work? That would really frost ’em, wouldn’t it?

    Don’t get mad, run a better candidate for the election next time. So sorry that Orly can’t run, it was quite a hoot watching her run for CA Sec. Of State! Too bad the crazies have taken over, really.

  51. Interested onlooker says:

    Sg, that’s a good start, but a little lax on some of the details. I think Randy needs to bring us that original birth certificate (the one his state keeps in the vault, not a copy). We’ll need a blood sample to match against any DNA left by his foot while taking the footprint, too. If there isn’t any, that’s a pretty clear indication that it is a forgery, don’t you think?

  52. Randy says:

    Dear Rob,
    It’s so sad we can’t be friends.
    I was like so wanting to send you an invitation to my next Birther party. I get all tingley when you talk all smart and stuff. I promise not to ask you where you were educated because I know that’s beneath you. If you have any Kenyan friends they could come too! You should know that if your dear leader continues on his current path, we kooks will outnumber the true believers by about 4-1. But you are still welcome if you care to be around a bunch of out-Caste and misfits.

    Seriously,
    Randy

  53. Norbrook says:

    SueDB and I are both former NCO’s, and we’re just giving you remedial training (never punishment) in the oldest rule in the enlisted handbook: Never Volunteer.

  54. Randy says:

    Interested onlooker,

    Now that’s just crazy talk……
    You can’t test Alien DNA….

  55. Norbrook says:

    We’d also need blood samples from each of his purported parents to verify that they are indeed his parents.

  56. sg says:

    Them’s good points, IO, but I was really driving at getting the new 65″ LED-LCD 1080p 3-D 240Hz TV at Best Buy.

  57. Capt. Obvious says:

    “Bill C says:
    October 4, 2010 at 4:01 pm (Quote)
    So the fact that Orly Taitz is a racist makes LTC Lakin a racist?”

    It wasn’t my intention to imply that. I do know from experience that many birthers are bigots and xenophobes. They will hide (badly) behind the Constitution as a smokescreen for their bigotry including those who have directly and indirectly represented him.

    I do not know if this is Lakin’s ulterior or direct motive.
    Perhaps time will tell.

  58. Capt. Obvious says:

    Where is that a requirement for eligibility in the Constitution?

    Can you name the birth hospital and attending physician for every U.S. President before Carter? Why not?

    When exactly did that become a requirement by law?

    Please cite exactly when and where you found that law.

    Where is “honest curiosity” part of the eligibility requirements?

    It’s honest curiosity? RIGHT. That’s a big, steaming load of B.S. you can peddle elsewhere.

    “You cannot deny that the COLB omits some very important information.”

    Because you scribbled Randy’s standards in crayon into the margins of your
    copy of the Constitution? Your arrogance and ignorance is typical birther blather and irrelevant to people of actual legal authority.

    Care to debunk that, birther?

  59. BigGuy says:

    Which president can you name who has “offered [evidence] that proves which hospital he was born in and who slapped his ass for the first time?”

    And why on earth would it matter?

  60. Capt. Obvious says:

    “Where is any evidence the CiC has offered that proves which hospital he was born in and who slapped his ass for the first time?”

    Where is that requirement in the Constitution or any U.S. law?

    Is it Randy’s standard? What’s Reagan’s birth hospital? And any President before Carter? You set the standard so put up or STFU.

  61. Capt. Obvious says:

    Birthers invariably move the goalposts when you ask them where and when that became part of Constitutional law with regards to eligibility requirements.

    I ask them to name the birth hospitals for any President before Carter and they get that confused dog, head tilt look and quickly move the goalposts.

  62. Rob A says:

    we kooks will outnumber the true believers by about 4-1

    Currently true believers outnumber kooks about 73% to 27%. You have some catching up to do.

  63. Rob A says:

    Well, being the only NCO around here as far as I can tell, that just figures.

    I made it all the way to Lance Corporal.

  64. Randy says:

    BigGuy,

    1. The COLB is not the only official birth certificate issued by Hawaii. Yes, it is official, and they default to it for many reasons including privacy. Obama can easily request a certified duplicate copy of the original long form, that officials in Hawaii have admitted they have on file, and they must produce it for him. There may be a fee but if Obama can’t afford it, I’ll pay.

    2. “Hospital and physician” are relevant because Obama and family have on many occasions proclaimed his live birth on Hawaiian soil. It is entirely plausible the he was born overseas, brought back to Hawaii soon after-wards, and presented at the Hawaiian hospital several weeks where an original birth certificate would have been created.
    This is a perfectly reasonable scenario given that his Mother was American and would have known the importance of American citizenship.
    Although a birth certificate would have been created, no physician or witness signatures, or footprints would have been requested (or allowed) on the original birth certificate as that would have been fraudulent. This is how birth records are suppose to be created. A footprint proves the baby was physically there at birth.
    As long as Obama can keep Pandora’s box closed, all he has to contend with is a conspiracy. If that information is missing form his original birth certificate, then we have a Constitutional crisis.
    I have every confidence in the integrity of the Hawaiian Health officials and their system of records.
    I don’t have the same confidence in Obama’s integrity nor do I take him at his word.
    One call to Hawaii would vindicate him, if he were innocent.

    Obama’s actions so far don’t make me want to take his word for it.

  65. sg says:

    I have every confidence in the integrity of the Hawaiian Health officials and their system of records.

    GREAT! The subject is settled then because the Hawaiian officials have stated repeatedly that their records show that Obama was born in Hawaii. How you feel about Obama as President is irrelevant, and details about Obama’s birth are irrelevant to LTC Lakin’s Court-Martial, so a normal person would say that we’re done here.

  66. Interested onlooker says:

    Randy says Hawaii still will issue a long form birth certificate. The Hawaiian Dept. of Health says otherwise. http://archives.starbulletin.com/content/20090606_kokua_line

    Randy, have any documentation to back up your claim?

  67. Rob A says:

    so a normal person would say that we’re done here

    SG, this is going to be a problem.

  68. sg says:

    I was a PFC (E-3) three times when it finally stuck, SO THERE!

  69. Christopher Mathews says:

    1834 Randy:

    I have every confidence in the integrity of the Hawaiian Health officials and their system of records.

    Glad to hear it. No doubt this will put your mind at ease:

    I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.

    Please note that Dr. Fukino made that statement over a year ago. I’m sure in all the excitement you merely overlooked it.

  70. BigGuy says:

    “Obama’s actions so far don’t make me want to take his word for it.”
    __

    I’m sorry to hear it, but you’re going to have to live with your doubts. The COLB is legal proof of when and where he was born, and the fact that it’s not sufficient to convince you doesn’t mean squat.

    The Constitution says the President must be a natural born citizen. It doesn’t say that the President is obligated to satisfy the last doubt of the last doubter.

  71. Capt. Obvious says:

    Birther still avoiding simple requests, making up requirements with more baseless speculations and pushing those goalposts once again.

    Quelle surprise. It must suck to be a paranoid, deranged birther bigot with more spare time than common sense.

    Check your Constitutions, folks.

    Eligibility is now determined by “Randy’s Amendments.”

    You do remember when Congress passed those, right? LMFAO

  72. Randy says:

    Dear Capt. Oblivious,
    Constitution, Article 2 , Section 1, Paragraph 5. Pay close attention to the word “natural born”, not native born as you liberals would like to amend it to read. Go study up on the difference.
    While you are at it, see if you can find me Obama’s passport records. He’s hiding those too.

    It seems you have come undone.
    You should let your pulse come down.
    Sorry to upset you so. I guess this talk of holding Obama accountable really has you scared.

  73. Randy says:

    It’s not my standard, it’s Obama’s standard.
    Those are his assertions, not mine.
    I just want to proof that his assertions are true.
    So he can continue to play CiC and fly around in the big jets.

  74. Randy says:

    Do you even know the difference between a Colb and an original certificate? Do you even know why they both exist?
    Explain the difference if you can, without writing another steaming load of BS post.

  75. BigGuy says:

    Go study up on the difference.

    Randy, maybe you should study up on the difference, and then you can explain it to the Indiana Court of Appeals. They said:

    “Based upon the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born Citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents.”

    They wrote that in their decision in Ankeny v. Governor, a case that specifically addressed Obama’s eligibility.

    And while you’re at it, you can tell us why your legal credentials are superior to those of the senior judges who reached that decision unanimously.

  76. BigGuy says:

    Obama said that presidential eligibility requires evidence of the name of the birth hospital and the attending physician? I doubt it.

  77. yguy says:

    Randy says Hawaii still will issue a long form birth certificate. The Hawaiian Dept. of Health says otherwise.

    HRS §338-13 (a) says Randy is correct, assuming the DoH has no problem complying with HI law.

  78. Randy says:

    Bill C,
    Good post.
    Anyone can read my post here and see where I stand.
    Race has NOTHING to do with my objections to Obama.
    Not one damn thing.
    It’s about Conservatism vs Tyranny and that’s it.
    I’m an equal opportunity tyranny hater.
    Lakin is putting his life at risk and Sterngard can’t resist going Birther on him. If Lakin were Black, Sterngard may as well have called him the N word. Everyone else is racist but not Sterngard, because his credentials convince him he’s right.
    Mr. Friegen sir,
    Do you have a plaque hung prominently behind your desk from the NAACP declaring you immune to all racism allegations hence forth?
    I agree that it’s going to get uglier out there.
    Sterngard, opinions like yours all but guarantee it.

  79. Rob A says:

    HRS §338-13 (a) says Randy is correct, assuming the DoH has no problem complying with HI law.

    However, Randy is incorrect if you also read parts (b) and (c)

  80. Randy says:

    Obama said he was born in a Hawaiian hospital but won’t/can’t offer up any evidence that proves it.
    A Colb, a newspaper announcement, and his word are all there is. The long form certificate would prove/disprove Obama’s assertions.
    But why would a Marxist want to do anything to promote cooperation and tranquility between people who vehemently disagree with one another?

  81. BigGuy says:

    Janice Okubo has clearly stated that they will not (http://archives.starbulletin.com/content/20090606_kokua_line), and I doubt that she’s lying. If you think she is, why don’t you show us a “long form” that was issued during the period in question.

    Now, if you think that puts her in violation of the law, you’re entitled to your opinion, but that doesn’t change the fact that they don’t do it.

  82. BigGuy says:

    The COLB is all the legal proof he needs concerning his birth data. If that doesn’t satisfy you, that’s too bad. Maybe if you jump up and down and scream that will make him change his mind. If not, try calling him names. That’s sure to persuade him.

  83. Randy says:

    What I’ve actually said:

    Colb is issued by default and to 3rd parties with signed consent.

    Certified copies of an original long form are only available at the request and validation of the person named on the certificate.

    Are you saying that an original exists in Hawaii and Obama himself has no right to a certified copy of it?
    If yes, please explain.

  84. Randy says:

    Big Guy,

    From the article you cite:
    “At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting,” she said.”

    So they have “all information” and she has said in other interviews that the original exists and she has seen it.

    So, It’s there, but we can’t have “all of it”.
    Do I have that about right?

  85. yguy says:

    However, Randy is incorrect if you also read parts (b) and (c)

    No, he is not. I am of course aware that an official who didn’t want to release a copy of the original could parse the law so as to issue a “copy” that is scrawled in crayon, but if it did not contain all the information contained in the original, it would no more satisfy the explicit requirement in §§(a) than the COLB does. And since Fukino voluntarily affirmed that she has the original on record, obviously anything short of a certified photocopy in response to a request under that provision would cast doubt on the probity of the DoH, at least to anyone who isn’t braindead.

  86. Randy says:

    So by your standards, I could refuse your requests and still qualify with your blessings of approval.

  87. Rob A says:

    @yguy and Randy,

    You guys should check with Linda Lingle, the Republican Governor of Hawaii and 2008 McCain/Palin campaign supporter, for clarification.

  88. BigGuy says:

    Randy — “So, It’s there, but we can’t have “all of it”. Do I have that about right?”
    __

    Yes, I think you do. The various state Departments of Health around the country have all kinds of information about all of us.

    Obama has voluntarily released his COLB, which contains all the birth data relevant to his eligibility. The State of Hawaii has access to much more information about him, and you and I are not entitled to it.

    I know you don’t like it, but that’s the way it goes.

  89. yguy says:

    Janice Okubo has clearly stated that they will not (http://archives.starbulletin.com/content/20090606_kokua_line),

    The article does not say the DoH won’t issue long forms to people who were born before 1980.

    why don’t you show us a “long form” that was issued during the period in question.

    IIRC, Doctor Conspiracy has stated that he knows of a long form that was issued by HI in 2007.

  90. Rob A says:

    The article does not say the DoH won’t issue long forms to people who were born before 1980.

    Nor does it say they will.

    IIRC, Doctor Conspiracy has stated that he knows of a long form that was issued by HI in 2007.

    That’s not what BigGuy asked, he asked you to show one.

  91. yguy says:

    @yguy and Randy,

    You guys should check with Linda Lingle

    What the hell for, since without a court order she has no more right to see the original than I do?

  92. Rob A says:

    What the hell for, since without a court order she has no more right to see the original than I do?

    She could explain to you why Hawaii doesn’t issue copies of the original.

  93. yguy says:

    She could explain to you why Hawaii doesn’t issue copies of the original.

    She could explain why the DoH refuses to act according to HI law, you mean.

  94. Rob A says:

    She could explain why the DoH refuses to act according to HI law, you mean.

    No, I typed exactly what I meant. However, being the Governor, she is in a better position to explain Hawaii law and policy than I am.

  95. Trevor says:

    I wondered how long it would take LieGuy to turn up.

    A. Your cite is crap as all it says is ya gets a certified copy of the relevant data, to whit the COLB. Not the mystical “Long Form”.

    B. Dr C has NEVER stated that he has a “Long Form” printed and issued from 2007..lie…lie…lie

    Before you move to your next fall back BS point….guess what the Hawai’in native bloodlines BC (a fuller than a short form BC) does not count as President (God that must hurt) Obama ain’t a native Hawai’in.

    LieGuy, you have has these points eviscerated dozens of times, get over it,

    If you hate Obama so much, peel your fat lardy ass out of the Barcalounger, dust the Cheeto’s crumbs from your wifebeater and get involved in grown up, big boys pants, politics and try and get another person voted in come 2012.

  96. Capt. Obvious says:

    Randy,
    Are you really that dense? Really?

  97. gorefan says:

    “natural born”, not native born as you liberals would like to amend it to read.

    The first liberals to read native born as equal to natural born were members of the founding generation.

    James Iredell, “No man but a native, or who has resided fourteen years in America, can be chosen President.” North Carolina Debate on the Constitution, July, 1788

    James Iredell was nominated to the Supreme Court by President Washington.

    James Kent, “As the President is required to be a native citizen of the United States(Commentaries on American Law, 1826).

    James Kent was appointed by New York Governor John Jay to the New York Chancery.

    St. George Tucker, “That provision in the constitution which requires that the president shall be a native-born citizen (unless he were a citizen of the United States when the constitution was adopted,) is a happy means of security against foreign influence, which, wherever it is capable of being exerted, is to be dreaded more than the plague.” (View of the Constitution, 1803).

    St. George Tucker was a Revolutionary War hero, wounded at the battle of Yorktown. He was appointed by President Madison to be a United States District Court judge.

    And of course, William Rawle, “Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity.” (View of the Constitution of the United States of America, 1829).

    Rawle was appointed by President Washington to be the United States District Attorney for Pennsylvania.

    So, Randy, can you provide us with a statement from the founders that native born does not equal natural born?

  98. yguy says:

    A. Your cite is crap as all it says is ya gets a certified copy of the relevant data, to whit the COLB. Not the mystical “Long Form”.

    I have no idea what site you refer to, but HI law says the registrant gets a certified copy of ANY certificate on record – which according to Fukino includes the original – or ANY portion thereof, whether the DoH deems it “relevant” or not.

    B. Dr C has NEVER stated that he has a “Long Form” printed and issued from 2007..lie…lie…lie

    Since I never made such a claim, obviously I’m not the one who is lying.

  99. Trevor says:

    Tut Tut LieGuy

    “IIRC, Doctor Conspiracy has stated that he knows of a long form that was issued by HI in 2007.”

    Liar Liar pants on fire…doesn’t exist, never has existed, Dr C has never stated such a thing. Care to show us the link, statement, image, screen-shot, document, download etc…?

    “I have no idea what site you refer to, but HI law says the registrant gets a certified copy of ANY certificate on record – which according to Fukino includes the original – or ANY portion thereof, whether the DoH deems it “relevant” or not.”

    You know as well as everyone else on this board that this is NOT what the statute refers to.

    The statute is to get a certified copy of the form in use OR an abstractyed selction of the data within said form, to whit the COLB. No other form is provided, the statute is for the COLB.

    You wanting it be be something else doesn’t magically make it such, a typical Birfoon failure.

  100. KyAtty says:

    I have never cared about what hospital any President was born in, or who the attending physician was. I would be willing to bet you have never cared before Obama became President, either. If you could step outside your obsession for a minute and look at the facts objectively, you might be able to realize how ludicrous this fantasy that a pregnant white American teenager made the arduous journey to Kenya in 1961 to have her baby is.

  101. KyAtty says:

    B.S. If the President produced enough certified copies of his B.C. so that each birfer could have one of his own, 9 out of 10 birfers would immediately declare it a forgery. The other birfer would say the President is a usurper anyway because his father wasn’t an American citizen.

  102. yguy says:

    …Dr C has never stated such a thing.

    Prove it.

    “I have no idea what site you refer to, but HI law says the registrant gets a certified copy of ANY certificate on record – which according to Fukino includes the original – or ANY portion thereof, whether the DoH deems it “relevant” or not.”

    You know as well as everyone else on this board that this is [EXACTLY] what the statute refers to.

    To be sure.

  103. SIRJASON says:

    PLEA? It is NOT an option. Lose his license to practice medicine? LTCOL Terrence Lakin will be found NOT guilty and promoted to COL and the JAG officers will be court martialed! Justice…’how sweet it is!

  104. Trevor says:

    Still making shit up I see,

    Since WordPress’s search is so cack I used Google to the domain and qu’elle suprise….no sign of that little extract at all…..

    As an example

    =========================================

    Your search – “but HI law says the registrant gets a certified copy ” site:obamaconspiracy.org – did not match any documents.

    Suggestions:

    Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
    Try different keywords.
    Try more general keywords.
    Try fewer keywords.

    ===================================

    Or……

    ===================================
    Your search – “Fukino includes the original” site:obamaconspiracy.org – did not match any documents.

    Suggestions:

    Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
    Try different keywords.
    Try more general keywords.
    Try fewer keywords.

    =======================================

    Not even a marginally competent attempt on your part.

  105. BigGuy says:

    BIG NEWS!!

    The “United States Patriots Union” (USPU) has published its fourth “White Paper” and suddenly withdrawn it. It can still be found at http://www.scribd.com/doc/38830921/LTC-Lakin-Chooses-New-Defense-USPU-White-Paper-4.

    But toward the bottom of Page 2 it refers to the “corrupted justice system within the UCMJ,” and the phrase is an HTML link — to this page, http://www.caaflog.com/2010/10/02/goodbye-guano-crazy/!

    We’ve finally hit the big time!

  106. Weirick says:

    Sir,

    You have the right film, but the wrong quote. In the following scene the part of Otter is played by the Birthers and Flounder is played by LTC Lakin.

    Otter/Birthers: Flounder (LTC Lakin), you can’t spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You f***ed up . . . you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it! Maybe we can help.

    Flounder/LTC Lakin – [crying] That’s easy for you to say! What am I going to tell Fred?

  107. sg says:

    Or perhaps most on point, the student court scene.

  108. Randy says:

    yguy,
    Thank You.
    That’s all I’m saying.

  109. Randy says:

    yguy,
    Don’t loose your sanity in here.
    Keep up the good fight.
    Amazing how seemingly intelligent people here get so rabid when “the other side” wants to see a simple BC.

  110. Randy says:

    Typical Liberal response.
    Cite a work of fiction.

  111. Randy says:

    I am fluent in both Birtherish and Liberalies.

  112. Randy says:

    gorefan,
    Let me guess.
    You still believe Gore won in 2000,
    and you also believed all that glove fitting crap.

  113. Randy says:

    Yes, I agree.
    In time, the truth will catch a lie.

  114. Randy says:

    gorefan,
    I suppose next you will tell me Obama’s original BC isn’t available because of greedy Wall Street traders, global warming, or George Bush!

  115. sg says:

    Actually, “Randy”, not everyone in here is an actual liberal like me.
    Having said that, we’re using the work of fiction to poke fun at this whole situation and to some extent, you.
    It figures that a birther half-wit like yourself would be unable to tell the difference between farce and reality. That’s the world you inhabit, after all.

  116. sg says:

    No, he’ll tell you the truth. It isn’t available because you have no right to it at all.
    Also, for the purposes of the military justice system, it’s irrelevant.
    So simple a caveman can figure it out.

  117. Phil Cave says:

    Hey, don’t be calling me simple, I’m more than an amoeba. :-)

  118. Randy says:

    Of course not. Why should the President be concerned about the beliefs of Lakin? That his beliefs drove him to failing to obey a lawful order or two deserves to be appropriately ‘rewarded’. Do you not believe in equal justice
    Lakin may be a ‘hero’ in the eyes of a few who are less interested in truth and facts than in seeing an odd looking, President with an odd sounding name in office.

    But the President is concerned to the tune of several million dollars spent to remain the enigma in chief.

  119. Randy says:

    gorefan wrote:

    So, Randy, can you provide us with a statement from the founders that native born does not equal natural born?

    If he can’t put show me what hospital he was born in and delivering physician then I “suspect” he is neither.

  120. BigGuy says:

    That’s a silly non sequitur.

    What you “suspect” is of no legal consequence whatsoever.

    On the other hand, the equivalence of “natural born” and “native born” is of great significance, and you have given us not the slightest reason to doubt it.

  121. Randy says:

    I don’t know of any Court having decided on a President’s eligibility. If he weren’t born the son of a Muslim Brit I imagine no one would be concerned. I do know that there is no lie too big for a modern Liberal to tell. Lying is the name of the first chapter of the Democrats “How to Win an Election” playbook.

  122. sg says:

    I love how “Randy” whines about this. “Randy,” you should know just as a point of how life in the real world works, cause you seem to be detached from it:
    PEOPLE WHO TELL YOU THINGS YOU DON’T WANT TO HEAR ARE NOT ALL LIBERALS. And while a liberal like me takes particular delight in your floundering and thrashing, most of the commentors here on this site are NOT very political. They are, just as the site’s topics suggest, Military Justice practitioners. SOME PEOPLE TELL YOU THINGS YOU DON’T WANT TO HEAR BECAUSE THOSE THINGS ARE THE TRUTH. Sometimes a Liberal like me will do that very thing. The fact that I take pleasure in your displeasure does not mean I am lying to you. Trust me on this, dude. I am loving how the truth of this situation has you tied up in knots. You’re near disfunctional and I find that freaking hilarious.
    But the others on this site, Col. Sullivan, Mr. Shovell, Mr. Cave and the others–they’re telling you these things because these things are the truth. I don’t think they take anywhere near the joy in your discomfort that I do. That’s not my impression, anyway. They are far too professional for that. I’m retired so I don’t have to be professional anymore. I get to point at you and laugh like Nelson from “The Simpsons.” HA HA!

  123. sg says:

    I don’t know of any Court having decided on a President’s eligibility.
    Because as the courts have ruled over and over again, it’s not within their purview. The time to do that was before the election, and the only attempt then in Indiana failed because the Indiana Supreme Court followed the law.
    If he weren’t born the son of a Muslim Brit I imagine no one would be concerned.
    See above, re: Indiana Supreme Court. He was born in the US, to a US Citizen. Either one of which is enough for him to have US Citizenship. Your ‘concern’ which is properly translated into non-birfer as racist fearmongering, is of no concern.
    I do know that there is no lie too big for a modern Liberal to tell. Nor one too small. Consider the following: I respect you as a person and I value your contributions and I don’t think for one minute that the world would be a little bit brighter if you were hit by a bus.
    Lying is the name of the first chapter of the Democrats “How to Win an Election” playbook.
    Which means that Dems tell the truth because if they lie about everything and they tell each other to lie about everything, then they must tell the truth because they lie about lying so they tell the truth but they can’t tell the truth because they lie. But they lie all the time even when they say to lie which then requires them to tell the truth but they can’t tell the truth because they lie…
    Easy there, Norman 01. You’ll blow a circuit.

  124. Capt. Obvious says:

    Says the birther BS artist.

    Do you know prima facie evidence is, dipwad?

  125. Capt. Obvious says:

    “But the President is concerned to the tune of several million dollars spent to remain the enigma in chief.”

    Whirled Nut Daily B.S. Overdose Alert. That has to be one of the biggest and most often repeated of the birther lies.

    Why can’t birthers ever prove it? Because they’re inherently full of crap? (end rhetorical)

  126. Capt. Obvious says:

    Prove it, birther boy.

  127. Capt. Obvious says:

    “But the President is concerned to the tune of several million dollars spent to remain the enigma in chief.”

    Where’s your proof? Any credible evidence? Birthers spout all kinds of baseless speculations (as if you ever had any credibility).

    Citing Whirled Nut Daily is a sign of mental illness and not considered credible.

  128. Capt. Obvious says:

    “Race has NOTHING to do with my objections to Obama.
    Not one damn thing.”

    “If he weren’t born the son of a Muslim Brit I imagine no one would be concerned.”

    Another birther caught in his own web of xenophobic lies.

    Vile and pathetic.

  129. Capt. Obvious says:

    “If he can’t put show me what hospital he was born in and delivering physician then I “suspect” he is neither.”

    When did that become law?

    Why are Randy’s standards relevant?

    Simple questions. Simple answers. Never and they are not.

  130. Randy says:

    As I read parts b and c. I understood it to read that if an original long form is avaiable it can be be photo copied.
    Obama should man up and request it.
    Oops, but wait … he mighta kinda lied on his resume.
    That’s common behavior for a democrat:
    John Kerry’s embelishments.
    Gore inventing the internet.
    Richard Blumenthal the Vietnam war hero.
    That pillar of virtue John Edwards.
    And so many more.
    You got some defendin’ to do.

  131. BigGuy says:

    @Randy: “As I read parts b and c. I understood it to read…”
    __

    That’s nice, Randy, thanks for sharing with us how you read the law.

    However, it’s not consistent with the way the State of Hawaii under Republican Governor Linda Lingle is executing the law. And since we haven’t seen any other “long forms” from that period either, it must be a policy that’s been around since long before Barack Obama became President, so you’ll have to blame someone else for that.

    They’re not issuing long forms. It has nothing to do with Obama.

  132. Randy says:

    SG,
    I have never asserted that I have that right.
    Please try to avoid twisting my words to pad your ego.

  133. Randy says:

    “born the son of a Muslim Brit”
    This is no lie.
    Check to see if it’s time for you to take your pill.

  134. Randy says:

    As a conservative, were I to run, I’d be happy to offer up any information you request. I know how important it is to you. I’ll disclose whatever necessary to appease you. That’s just the way I roll. I guess I just have higher standards.

    The DNC alone has “authenticated” Obama’s eligibility. If he’s a fraud, Democrats have themselves to blame.

  135. Randy says:

    That article does not even support your claim.

  136. BigGuy says:

    No, he’s right, you’ve been busted.

    You pretend to be concerned about eligibility. But there’s nothing about being born the son of a Muslim Brit that would affect his eligibility.

    You’ve revealed your true agenda.

  137. Randy says:

    Everything you just stated would be null and void if his original long form does not list the hospital, doctor, and prints.
    Is this all it takes to scare you so?

  138. Randy says:

    Basically Obama lied on his resume.
    So we ask what college he attended, for his transcripts, degrees, attendance, accomplishments, etc, and all we get is…yea he was here.
    And BTW, STFU.

  139. Randy says:

    sg,
    You didn’t have to admit you were a Liberal.
    You’d be at least that seeing as you lie in the lap of a Marxist.

  140. Randy says:

    Don’t flatter yourself, I’m not at all upset.
    I really wasn’t trying to win you over or get your approval. But you should shed that Liberal label for Socialist. Get with the times sg.
    I’ve been Conservative for 50 years so I’m use to the slander and abuse. I kinda enjoy poking you with my stick too. I get a few giggles myself.
    You’d never admit it but you know I have questions you don’t want answered. Pick your side and lets play. I’ll be on the side that wants some answers, you be on the side that doesn’t want me to have the answers.
    I still love you though and I’ll be here for you if the truth ever comes out and you need consolation.
    MuaHaHaHa….

  141. Randy says:

    Is that when I swore to my Wife that I painted the overhang on my house?

  142. Randy says:

    It casts enough additional doubt on his eligibility that a more exhaustive inspection of his elusive background is warranted. In my opinion.
    If me having an opinion is alright with you.

  143. sg says:

    You’re opinion is worth about what I’ve paid for it.
    Let’s see here…carry the 3…add the 2…take the square root…oh look, we get a value of zero.

  144. sg says:

    Oh, but you did, “Randy”, you did. You have been asserting a right to see those documents since you got here, and no doubt on other fora long before you graced us with your presence.

  145. sg says:

    SG, this is going to be a problem.

    Sigh. You were right, and I didn’t listen. Why don’t I ever listen?

  146. sg says:

    Ahh, now we’ve reached the name calling. Funny how you claim to have “been a conservative for 50 years” cause you act like my 13-year-old daughter after I caught her smoking.
    Can’t we just skip to the part where you scream that you hate me and wish you’d never been born and slam the door to your room and not come out again?
    Life is so much quieter after that.

  147. Randy says:

    Well I’m pretty old and it’s never come up before. I never had any reason to question any other President in my lifetime. Respectfully, what does this have to do with anything?

    I honestly don’t equate my rational curiosity with the hysterical defensive stance of those who would defend Obama at any cost.

    Where did you come up with that time line?
    Nobody I’ve read has suggested his Mother traveled to Kenya to give birth.

    As I understand it, the accusation is: She was in Kenya when Obama was born and being pregnant prohibited travel back to Hawaii to give birth. She returned to Hawaii to establish his birth in a Hawaiian hospital.
    There are comments by relatives and others in Kenya that are at odds with Obama’s own assertions of Hawaiian birth.
    His long form birth certificate would resolve the issue.

    You may be living in Obama’s fantasy world.
    He should man up and not be so obsessed with hiding from everyone his real birth certificate.
    But even I know that he won’t do that.
    A Marxist needs someone to demagogue.

  148. BigGuy says:

    @Randy — “His long form birth certificate would resolve the issue.”
    __

    His COLB resolves the issue. It is an official state document that says he was born in Honolulu. Regardless of the brither claims, no one has yet ever shown even a single State of Hawaii COLB that incorrectly lists a Hawaiian birth place for someone who was in fact born out out the country. Hawaiian state officials have said publicly that it would not happen, and the State of Hawaii put its seal on the document to attest to their confidence in its correctness. It’s a big burden to show an official document to be false.

    You are correct: “the accusation is: She was in Kenya when Obama was born.” But it has never gotten beyond the stage of an accusation. You are free to research it all you like and come up with evidence to support your claim, but it’s been over two years and no one has found anything to cause reasonable people to question the validity of the official document, which is prima facie evidence in any court.

    I understand that you’re still not convinced, and that’s your right. By all means, keep looking for evidence. But vague statements like “There are comments by relatives and others” are not evidence.

    Why don’t you single out one statement by anyone that you think has the best chance of constituting valid evidence that he was born somewhere other than Hawaii? Not just vague assertions, but something that you think would stand up against the validity of a legal document when weighed in the balance?

    Pick the one that you have the most confidence in, and let’s see how strong it is. Because, after two years, people expect to see more than a lot of vague suspicions and “what if”s.

  149. sg says:

    They ignore all the other facts that are inconvenient to them, why not that one too?

  150. Capt. Obvious says:

    “As I understand it . . .

    Therein lies the root of the problem. Birther idiots have more spare than common sense.

    Their irrational sense of entitlement and sheer arrogance is pathetic. I have little doubt many of them are bigoted, xenophobic cowards hiding behind their own stupidity and hubris.

    “There are comments by relatives and others in Kenya that are at odds with Obama’s own assertions of Hawaiian birth.”

    Pure birther B.S.

  151. Capt. Obvious says:

    ““There are comments by relatives and others in Kenya that are at odds with Obama’s own assertions of Hawaiian birth.”

    It’s incredibly sad how these un-American birther traitors will take the misquoted words of Kenyans over the legal authority of the state of Hawaii. It shows utter disrespect for U.S. laws and the Constitution.

    Truly despicable.

  152. Capt. Obvious says:

    Is that when I swore to my Wife that I painted the overhang on my house?

    Senility or Alzheimer’s? Both?

  153. Interested onlooker says:

    “The trouble with the world is not that people know too little,
    but that they know so many things that ain’t so.”
    Mark Twain, apparently predicting the birthers…

  154. Norbrook says:

    Nobody I’ve read has suggested his Mother traveled to Kenya to give birth.
    As I understand it, the accusation is: She was in Kenya when Obama was born and being pregnant prohibited travel back to Hawaii to give birth. She returned to Hawaii to establish his birth in a Hawaiian hospital.
    There are comments by relatives and others in Kenya that are at odds with Obama’s own assertions of Hawaiian birth.

    Um… you might try looking at Orly Taitz, for one. You might also note that the comments you’re stating were very clearly debunked – when you read the entire transcript of the interview, it’s very clear that they state that Obama was not born in Kenya.

    The whole “born in Kenya” routine is actually ridiculous on its face. Besides the expense – which was considerable in 1960’s, you have to ignore the marriage in Hawaii, and that she was pregnant when they got married. So that part is pretty dumb – but then again, given that birther’s do just that, it’s a redundant statement.

    You also have no idea of what a “Marxist” is, and no, the President is not one. Rather middle of the road Democrat, for the most part.

  155. Randy says:

    “And it would proclaim loud & clear that he was born in Honolulu of 8/4/61.”

    There you go again re-writing history.
    You proclaim it but you can’t prove.

    You are absurd.

  156. Randy says:

    Capt. Obvious says:
    October 8, 2010 at 5:34 pm (Quote)

    Is that when I swore to my Wife that I painted the overhang on my house?

    Senility or Alzheimer’s? Both

    Actually it means I am more concerned with watching paint dry that your opinion.
    I do insist he is a Marxist and his actions and words back me up.
    Why are you Liberals so averse to calling a Spade a Spade?
    I’ll wait for all the racist accusations to follow.
    You Liberal are so predictable.

  157. Randy says:

    “You also have no idea of what a “Marxist” is, and no, the President is not one. Rather middle of the road Democrat, for the most part.”

    The modern middle of the road Democrat is a mix of Socialism, Communism, and Marxism. There’s very little democratic left in the Democrat party.
    The Democrats you mistakenly compare Obama to are “independents” now.

  158. Randy says:

    “The whole “born in Kenya” routine is actually ridiculous on its face. Besides the expense – which was considerable in 1960’s, you have to ignore the marriage in Hawaii, and that she was pregnant when they got married.”

    So it seems you too have dreamed up a scenario that suits your agenda. Lets say I agree with you. Why don’t you help me prove you right by asking President Obama to request that his long form birth certificate, SS records, and Passport records be released to the public.

  159. Randy says:

    Randy & all the other birthers ignore the simple fact that President Obama has not ever blocked access to his birth certificate.It is not available because of the same privacy laws that protect all of us.ALL lawsuits, thus far, have failed on standing and/or judiciability issues.If a court of competent jurisdiction ever requested the birth info from HI DOH they would get it. And it would proclaim loud & clear that he was born in Honolulu of 8/4/61.

    Never Blocked access? Please. You insult yourself with comments like that.
    I am not a Birther. But you can call me one if it helps you satisfy your Rosy Palma.
    As Lawyers, lawlessness begets lawlessness should mean something.
    Liberal politicians defend lawlessness.
    Conservatives promote lawfulness.
    50+ years and I’m still waiting for one Liberal to hold another Liberal accountable.

  160. BigGuy says:

    @Randy — “Why don’t you help me prove you right by asking President Obama to request that his long form birth certificate, SS records, and Passport records be released to the public.”
    __

    You’re being silly again. His Certification of Live Birth is full legal proof of where he was born. In the United States, we don’t require people to keep proving things they’ve already proved.

  161. Greg says:

    Do you even know the difference between a Colb and an original certificate? Do you even know why they both exist?

    The difference is that a Certificate of Live Birth (COLB) establishes an individual’s time and place of birth – whereas an “original” birth certificate (if it ever existed) is not used by the State as a birth record at all.

    For the last ten years, Hawaii has maintained its birth records in a computer database; therefore, for anyone born over the last decade or so, there is no “original” birth certificate. And for those born in the era before computerization, their birth records have either been discarded or archived somewhere. But in either case, those old paper documents are no longer consulted in order to establish a fact of birth.

    So, whenever anyone asks for their birth certificate from the State of Hawaii, the clerk consults the database for the birth and prints out the record, if it is found. Whether or not Hawaii used to keep a record of that birth in some other form – is completely irrelevant toward establishing (for legal purposes) a Hawaiian time and place of birth.

    I’m glad that I could clear that question up for you.

  162. Greg says:

    I’m here to serve.

    Thank you for your service.

    :-)

  163. soonergrunt says:

    “I am not a Birther.”
    Excuse me while I give myself the Heimlich, cause I’m choking.
    You’re the deputy king of birthers. So far on this site, you are second only to yguy in your birther delusions. Are you freaking kidding? I mean, you had to have typed that firmly tongue in cheek because you aren’t just a birther, your one of the most prolific birther posters we’ve ever seen.

  164. Randy says:

    Label the opposition and attack the label.
    Typical Marxist tactic.
    soonergrunt, is your last name Alinsky?

  165. Randy says:

    “I am not a Birther.”
    Excuse me while I give myself the Heimlich, cause I’m choking.
    You’re the deputy king of birthers.So far on this site, you are second only to yguy in your birther delusions.Are you freaking kidding?I mean, you had to have typed that firmly tongue in cheek because you aren’t just a birther, your one of the most prolific birther posters we’ve ever seen.

    I guess there really is no other way for you to defend your president being a Marxist other than to call me a Birther.
    I understand…

  166. sg says:

    Whether the President is a marxist or not (and he isn’t, by the way. Pretty straight down the middle slightly left of center Democrat) has nothing to do with the fact that you are a birther.
    Bored now.

  167. Randy says:

    Anonymous e sg,
    Two Liberals just going down with the ship.
    When the truth comes out about your Dear Leader you can eat my shorts.
    Been fun!

  168. Weirick says:

    So who gives a crap it he’s a Marxist? He could be a fascist anarchist, it still doesn’t change the fact that I don’t own a car.

    – Ferris Bueller

  169. Capt. Obvious says:

    You wouldn’t know Karl from Groucho, senile birther.

    I guess there really is no other way for you to defend your president being a Marxist other than to call me a Birther.
    I understand…

  170. Capt. Obvious says:

    The modern middle of the road Democrat is a mix of Socialism, Communism, and Marxism. There’s very little democratic left in the Democrat party.
    The Democrats you mistakenly compare Obama to are “independents” now.

    You sound like a frightened old man who likes to share and spread fear.

    How pathetic.

  171. Capt. Obvious says:

    Actually it means I am more concerned with watching paint dry that your opinion.
    I do insist he is a Marxist and his actions and words back me up.
    Why are you Liberals so averse to calling a Spade a Spade?
    I’ll wait for all the racist accusations to follow.
    You Liberal are so predictable.

    If you didn’t care, you wouldn’t have responded, illiterate birther troll (speaking of predictable). LMFAO

    You have know idea WTF you are babbling about but keep embarrassing yourself. it’s mildly amusing.

  172. Capt. Obvious says:

    Never Blocked access? Please. You insult yourself with comments like that.
    I am not a Birther. But you can call me one if it helps you satisfy your Rosy Palma.
    As Lawyers, lawlessness begets lawlessness should mean something.
    Liberal politicians defend lawlessness.
    Conservatives promote lawfulness.
    50+ years and I’m still waiting for one Liberal to hold another Liberal accountable.

    You’re a true blue birther with a heavy dose of Obama Derangement Syndrome. You must be choking on bile and hatred.